Digital Gaming Arena Forum

The new Xbox will be revealed on May 21st at 10am PDT on Xbox Live.

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Totally OT, but have you played the newest Gears of War game?

No, but I was considering it since the price dropped to $40. Why?

I knew you liked the others, wanted your take on the new one.
Haven't played it myself.

I've heard mixed things about it with most people feeling that GOW 3 was much better. The sales for Judgment have been pretty bad, so I may wait until it's really cheap...I bought 3 when it was $14.99.

My sentiments as well. The multiplayer isn't getting much love,either.

Well, after watching the reveal of the "Xbox One", I can honestly say that if, and that's a big "if", I buy a next-gen console, it will most likely be the PS4.

Based on the released specs, both consoles are very similar...almost identical and built off of very similar hardware (8 core CPU and AMD GPU), so there won't be much difference in graphics or performance between the two. The differences come in the extras:

1. The Xbox One will require Kinect and all versions will ship with Kinect. Not only do I have no interest in Kinect, but it's going to add to the price of the system.
2. Xbox Live is not free while Sony's PS Network is...for now.
3. The biggest reason I'm disappointed in the Xbox One is the activation codes for games which will be linked to your Xbox Live account. Basically, if my son and I want to share a game with each other, we can only play it under one profile unless we want to pay a fee. All the details haven't been released, but Microsoft was very vague in its answers and I doubt it's going to be good for gamers. 

Yeah, a disc based game is tied to your profile. Anyone else who wants to play/install from that disc will have to pay a fee... a fee that apparently is the same price as the game at retail. This should help kill Gamefly and Gamestop.
The cable box stuff has no appeal for cord-cutters,satellite customers or most people outside of the US.
The Xbone must connect to the internet every 24 hours,also. So much for the fast growing mobile-only ISP crowd.

It appears Microsoft has designed a box few actually want, to win a war for the living room that increasingly doesn't exist or has little relevance to a growing segment of the population.

Edit; Xbone  uses DDR3 vs. DDR5 for PS4. MS admits it didn't go for the most power/best graphics.

I don't understand some of these decisions.  I would think that the used game/rental market actually drives some of the console sales.  To sever that symbiosis would not be a move I would make.

I think I'm passing on the next gen and sticking harder with my PC centric gaming.

Quote from: Ted on May 22, 2013 @ 12:59:23 AM
I don't understand some of these decisions.  I would think that the used game/rental market actually drives some of the console sales.  To sever that symbiosis would not be a move I would make.

I think I'm passing on the next gen and sticking harder with my PC centric gaming.

A conclusion more people are going to reach than MS/Sony realize.
Oh, they also showed this;

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Details on how Microsoft will handle used games has surfaced:

Publishers to receive cut of Xbox One pre-owned sales at retail (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137)

They should have just gotten rid of physical media altogether,instead of this creepy big-brother baloney.

Also sounds like they don't have their story straight;http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/24/4362680/xbox-one-games-will-require-regular-authentication-checks-used-games (http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/24/4362680/xbox-one-games-will-require-regular-authentication-checks-used-games)


And of course;https://twitter.com/collarduty (https://twitter.com/collarduty)

Hahahah some actual blowback on Xbone;http://seekingalpha.com/article/1459951-why-the-xbox-one-launch-led-to-a-drop-in-gamestop-s-stock?source=kizur (http://seekingalpha.com/article/1459951-why-the-xbox-one-launch-led-to-a-drop-in-gamestop-s-stock?source=kizur)

Here's a good summary of what's up;
"Confirmed" Issues:
- Forced online activation for all games
- Massive emphasis on TV, services and non game related focus
- Live TV services available in US only at launch, requires separate device
- No self publishing for indie devs
- No headset included
- Over emphasis on Kinect interface
- Xbox One not being backwards compatible with the 360 games or accessories.
- Microsoft's failed attempts to correct PR with contradicting FAQ's, vague responses, misinformation.

Hardware:
- DDR3 confirmed instead of GDDR5
- Potentially Only 5GB of the 8GB ram available for games
- Only HDMI for output.
- 3 OS's? At best, confusing, at worst, a nightmare.
- Kinect needed to be plugged in for Xbox One to function
- Non-replaceable Hard Drive (though not as much an issue, as external drives are supported similar to other consoles. could be a repair issue, though)
- Console uses a large external power brick (Conflirmed by DF/Wired)
- Console is not designed to be placed on its side

Problems with the announcement itself:
- EA games prerendered using in game assets
- COD looked less than stellar
- Quantum break reveal was confusing

Unconfirmed issues that still need clarification:
- How much is this gonna cost?
- Complex used games system that is anti consumer?
- How the hell does game borrowing work?
- Charged fee for playing used games on non linked profile?
- Console that needs to be connected to internet every 24 hrs to play games? (Phil Harrison says one thing, ms backtracked a bit later)

Nice summary.  I think this generation of consoles might just pass me by.  I have no desire to be that "connected."

Kevin

What really sucks is that Sony may do something similar. Hopefully all the bad press Microsoft is receiving will persuade Sony to do the right thing.

Quote from: Jason on May 24, 2013 @ 10:48:44 PM
What really sucks is that Sony may do something similar. Hopefully all the bad press Microsoft is receiving will persuade Sony to do the right thing.

Sonys' public stance on the matter is that they are leaving that sort of thing to the publisher.
No publisher has so far announced anything, and probably won't unless most of them are in collusion.
I consider this highly unlikely, as even EA has scrapped the Online Pass strategy.

I'm back to dump on Xbone some more. Todays' topic, the "power of the cloud".
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming)

I should thank Microsoft for making my next-gen buying decision MUCH easier. I saw a similar article that stated the Xbox One could quadruple its power by using the cloud and didn't even have to read it (but I did) to know it's a bunch of bullshit. It's amazing how they announced their system after Sony and it still has lower specs.

What's sad is we're the older- somewhat -more- affluent crowd the thing seems aimed at. I went from ambivilence to hostility after the reveal.
The furious backpedaling and obfuscation by MS since then hasn't helped, either.Of course, on the other hand, some "dudebro" types and gamer dads I run into playing online are stoked; some examples also to be found at DSP, where the controller looks "badass".
So, the thing may sell like hotcakes. :(

Some more stuff made clear by MS in the past couple of days.
Not all terrible news,but not much good at all;


    You do not own the games you buy. You license them.
    Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership.
    People can play games installed on your console whether you're logged in or not.
    10 people can be authorised to play these games on a different Xbox One via the cloud, but not at the same time.
    Publishers decide whether you can trade in your games and may charge for this.
    Publishers decide whether you can give a game you own to someone for free,  this only works if they've been on your friends list for 30 days.
    Your account allows you to play the games you license on any console.
    Your Xbox One must connect to the internet every 24 hours to keep playing games.
    When playing on another Xbox One with your account, this is reduced to one hour.
    Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements.
    Loaning and renting games will not be possible at launch, but Microsoft is "exploring the possibilities".
    Microsoft may change these policies or discontinue them at any point.

How this stuff got out of the spitball/idea phase is beyond me :P

That list is so ANTI-consumer that I can only shake my head.  I have a good feeling that indie PC gaming will become more popular than ever in the years after this launch.  And it's not even like it's a good thing for developers.  As a developer you want to get your game into as many hands as possible.  I think publishers are going to get a lot of blowback from this strategy and the bigger they are the worse it will be.

There's two things I like about the announcement:

   
• The physical disc does not need to be in the drive to play a game and I'd have access to all my games from anyone's console if I log in under my Xbox Live account.
• Shared games can be used by me and one other person at the same time. I'm hoping that means that we can actually play against each other using different consoles.

Everything else completely sucks. How are they going to decide who is in your "family group"? Will the accounts need to be linked to the same credit card? If not, what would stop me from sharing my games with friends?

Publishers have all the power in determining whether you can sell, trade or loan your games and none of them have made their intentions known yet. To be quite honest, I can't see them doing anything that favors the gamer and just keeping track of the different policies for different games/publishers will be annoying.

Sony has been vague in their responses to DRM, but I'd be shocked if the PS4 didn't have similar restrictions except for the required constant Internet connection.

My question again, is why sell physical discs at all? I already have to have a persistent broadband connection for the console to function, why sell the product at all at retail and involve middle-men?

What's going to be funny is when Dudebro and Gamers'Mom go to Redbox to pick up some titles for their new 'Bone. Or when they head to Gamestop to do a little tradin' to get the new Madden or CoD. The outrage and moral indignation will be priceless.

Of course,there is a lot of people who know and yet don't care about this stuff at all. You can head to DSP and see the reactions;paying for a license and then paying an extra fee to have the service to utilize the license is A-OK with some folks.

I think there are two reasons they're still selling physical discs:

   
• There are some people that like to physically own a game to have as part of their collection. I've downloaded my fair share of games but I still prefer physical copies (I feel the same way about movies too).
• The game publishers would not be happy if they lost the visibility and accessibility they have by having their games displayed and on sale in retail stores. They'd also lose the people buying games as gifts for other people.

I think the game publishers would love to eliminate the middle-man but they're afraid of being ahead of the curve and losing sales. On the other hand, by offering downloadable games the same day as the physical version, they're certainly setting the stage for an all-digital future and pushing the gaming public towards getting comfortable with the idea. I'd be shocked if any future consoles offer physical games after this generation.

Having said all that, my son and I were talking about our options of graphics cards and controllers for our computers. We may just invest in $150 graphics cards (Geforce GTX 650) and buy the Xbox controller for Windows. Will the standard, wired Xbox 360 controller work with a PC or do we have to buy the Xbox 360 Controller "For Windows"?

"There are some people that like to physically own a game to have as part of their collection. I've downloaded my fair share of games but I still prefer physical copies (I feel the same way about movies too)."

You won't own it anymore. :)

"The game publishers would not be happy if they lost the visibility and accessibility they have by having their games displayed and on sale in retail stores. They'd also lose the people buying games as gifts for other people."

Yes,but a XBL points/gift card would be the same thing.

Sony has been doing day one digital for a while,but I haven't seen any sales numbers for that.

Looks like you can use your controller;http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/pc-games/xbox-controller-for-windows-info (http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/pc-games/xbox-controller-for-windows-info)

Jason,  I can answer the controller question since I use controllers with my PC for some games.  You need a hardwired xbox 360 controller for you PC.  The kind that has the plug into the wireless controller to charge will not work even when plugged in.  The ones that work are the ones that are always wired.  The always wired ones will also work on the console.

Edit:  Just looked at Brad's link and I wasn't aware that was even possible to I guess you can?

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy (http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy)

Brad, good point about the XBL points and gift cards but I don't think stores will really push those since there's almost no markup on those items. Microsoft not only risk losing the consumer, but they may lose their retail store business too. It'll be very interesting to see how things shake out from all of this. Needless to say, any excitement I had for the next-gen is practically gone now.

Is Sony's day one digital sales for first party games only? I'd be curious to see those numbers too. As I said, I like owning a physical copy of a game but it is convenient knowing that you can just download a new release on the morning it's available.

Thanks for the link about the controllers. I was considering a wired controller but I can just buy the wireless receiver for less than $15 and use my current controllers.

Ted, what video card do you use for gaming on your PC? Would you recommend the Geforce GTX 650 for someone not looking for ridiculous frame rates?

First and Third party...NBA2K13 was up day one.

Jason, the PC I'm using was built about a year ago.  It has an i5-2500 3.3Ghz CPU in it and an Nvidia GTX 560 with 1GB.  I run pretty much every game on highest settings with no problems.


http://www.hwcompare.com/13473/geforce-gtx-560-vs-geforce-gtx-650/ (http://www.hwcompare.com/13473/geforce-gtx-560-vs-geforce-gtx-650/)

I don't keep up on hardware like I used to.  I bet you know much more about that stuff than I do.  This PC I actually had a flight sim acquaintance build for me because I didn't have the time and didn't want to do the research.  I just told him I wanted something that would run FSX with all the sliders to the right and it does.

Thanks for the info...I really like the site you linked to. I like being able to compare all the different cards directly against each other.

Five Hundred bucks for the Bone... :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Looks like the next-gen console war is over before it started - Sony is not implementing any restrictions on disc-based games and has $399 price tag. I wonder if the price of the games will be affected by this decision.

Bone games are 60 bucks for pre-order...I imagine PS4 will be the same. The extra 100 dollar price difference is for Kinect 2.0 and to pay off TV providers. I'm not sure that could have gone worse for Microsoft. They better hope their exclusives sell in the millions.

I'd like Sony to announce the hard drive size and I'd like to hear how publishers are going to deal with the lack of DRM on the PS4. Other than those two issues, I would almost consider pre-ordering a PS4 and I've never owned any console within a year of its release. I know some people are making a big deal out of having to buy the PS+ pass for online gaming now, but it was just a matter of time before that happened.

Got another question answered...PS4 comes with a 500GB hard drive and is upgradeable. It also comes with an HDMI cable too.

PDF Spec Sheet Attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Got my second question answered...Publishers will be allowed to use "Used Game Passes". Sounds very similar to the online pass. Will be interested to see more details on this.

Definitely PS4 for me next-gen, unless there are still unforeseen revelations to come.

Quote from: webdanzer on June 11, 2013 @ 10:30:15 AM
Definitely PS4 for me next-gen, unless there are still unforeseen revelations to come.

Same here - I may even buy it at launch. The small game library at launch doesn't really concern me because Madden 25, NBA 2k14 and Watchdogs would hold me over for a while.

FYI, I have found PS+ to be great value with all of the free games and discounts. I wouldn't have a Sony console without it.

Quote from: Brad Company on June 11, 2013 @ 04:25:52 PM
FYI, I have found PS+ to be great value with all of the free games and discounts. I wouldn't have a Sony console without it.

I honestly have no problem at all paying for PS+ and don't think it's a big deal at all. I'd prefer free, but I knew Sony was going to have to charge at some point to compete against Xbox Live.

It might not be all good with the PS4:

Third-Party Publishers WILL have Final Say on Used Games for PS4 (http://kotaku.com/third-party-publishers-will-have-final-say-on-used-game-512643240)

This makes me feel a little better about the PS4 DRM issue with third-party games:

Third-Party DRM Refers to Playing Used Games Online Only (http://www.gamefront.com/sony-third-party-drm-refers-to-playing-used-games-online-only/)

That's essentially identical to the online pass which we have now.

Will it be backward compatible for PS3 games?

No back- compat out of the box,but there are plans to use Gakai as a streaming solution. How well that may work remains to be seen.
The architecture of the new consoles is so different from their predecessors that BC is impossible without building the old chips into the new decks

Well,it seems some are getting upset because MS has stated that NO peripherals or accessories from the 360 will work on the Bone.
They are changing how usb works and the wireless technology,so no racing wheels,headsets,fight sticks or anything else will work.

I'm shocked that Microsoft would do anything to upset consumers with the Xbox One ;)

LOL,now the entire military is against them;http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members- (http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-)

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-has-alienated-us-troops-with-always-online-xbox-one-2013-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-has-alienated-us-troops-with-always-online-xbox-one-2013-6)

This situation now borders on parody,like from a comedy website.

Amazon had to take their next-gen purchase poll down 4 days early because the PS4 was beating the Xbox One 95% to 5%.

Quote from: Jason on June 17, 2013 @ 01:51:57 PM
Amazon had to take their next-gen purchase poll down 4 days early because the PS4 was beating the Xbox One 95% to 5%.

BTW, I just pre-ordered the Battlefield 4 and PS Plus Bundle from Amazon for $499 for my son. It'll be his combined birthday and Christmas gift.

Next-Gen Battlefield will have 64 players in a match like the PC versions. Should be "off the chain" as they say. ;D

Looks like Microsoft is completely caving in;http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbox-one-drm-features/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbox-one-drm-features/)

Yeah, I've been following the story on Twitter. I'm still sticking with the PS4...less money and no Kinect required.

This has been the craziest news cycle in gaming I can remember.
I wonder if last nights' Fallon show was the tipping point.

They really had no choice. I'm curious to see how they handle it. The Xbox Q&A page is down right now.

Another reason I'm sticking with the PS4...better hardware.

Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.

For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.

Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One. You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:

   
• An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games â€" After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

   
• Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today â€" There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.

In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.
These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.

Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.

Source: Xbox.com (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update)

Hah,can you imagine the board meetings the last few days? ;D

I decided to use the site that Ted introduced me to so I could compare the Xbox One (AMD Radeon 7790) GPU to the PS4 (AMD Radeon 7870) GPU:

http://www.hwcompare.com/14298/radeon-hd-7790-vs-radeon-hd-7870/ (http://www.hwcompare.com/14298/radeon-hd-7790-vs-radeon-hd-7870/)

Those results pretty much confirm all the articles I've seen stating that the 7870 is a much more powerful GPU. Let's not forget that the PS4 is also using DDR5 RAM compared the the Xbox One's DDR3 RAM.

Definitely a crazy turn-around by MS!

I'm with Jason in that I'm sticking with PS4 initially, for many of the same reasons:

• More Powerful
• Less Expensive
• No Kinect
• Slight Preference for its Exclusives

For those considering the Xbox One, start clearing out some room on your shelves:

(https://www.digitalgamingarena.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalgamingnation.com%2Fdgaorum%2Fgallery%2F1_20_06_13_9_27_51.jpeg&hash=d34add985717e3bf4be358eb8b11d2b3bcd4d7cd)

The 'Bone is a beast...and it STILL needs an external power brick.

Here is someone who gets it and sums up what is seriously wrong with the industry right now;
http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml)

Great article. I'd like to print it and frame it.

Most people favored Microsoft's DRM because of the "Family Sharing Plan", but the real details prove it was far from what people thought:

"When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour...When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game... The difference between the family sharing and the typical store demo is that your progress is saved as if it was the full game, and the data that was installed for that shared game doesn’t need to be erased when they purchase the full game!"

Source: heyuguysgaming.com (http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read)

Did anyone really believe 10 people could share ownership of a game? That publishers would be cool with 10 people paying $6 each to own the new MaddenFIFACallofDuty? Really? ::)

The 'hour demo' family sharing thing has not been proven to be true.  Definitely rumor status.

But do you honestly think 10 people could own a game for the price of one?
There had to be some sort of catch there; no one was going to sell new games for $6 dollars per person.
It didn't make sense with all of the other restrictions.

It really didn't, but the only thing I could think was, that's the trade off.  You give up all this other stuff and you have to connect every 24 hours, but this is what you get in return.  So I thought there was a chance the 10 family  circle thing might be legit.

It's still rumor status, but it hasn't been disproved yet. I'm with Brad on this, there's no way Microsoft or the game publishers would let up to 10 people share their games with no limits. What was mentioned in the article seems like a much more realistic scenario.